Shouting at Hoboken council meeting as council votes not to remove zoning board member/blogger
Sep 08, 2011 | 5266 views | 16 16 comments | 52 52 recommendations | email to a friend | print
HEY! Beth Mason exchanges words with Councilman Ravi Bhalla.
HEY! Beth Mason exchanges words with Councilman Ravi Bhalla.
slideshow
HOBOKEN - After a heated executive session in which yelling could be heard from the City Hall lobby, the Hoboken City Council voted down a resolution that would have authorized the beginning of the for-cause removal of Nancy Pincus as a Zoning Board member.

Pincus, who supports Mayor Dawn Zimmer, often takes aim on her personal blog at Zimmer's opponents, including Councilman Tim Occhipinti and Councilwoman Beth Mason. Occhipinti and Mason were the sponsors of the resolution to remove her from the Zoning Board.

Several of Pincus' posts have aroused their ire. Recently, Pincus wrote a series of satirical "Letters to the FBI," obliquely referring to an ongoing FBI investigation into alleged e-mail tampering in City Hall, rumored to be by Zimmer's opponents. In a recent letter, Pincus said she wanted to become an agent and knew who to arrest in Hoboken. She made references to visiting the homes of certain council members -- without naming them, only listing streets -- and spoke about how she wanted a gun as an agent.

"I think I'd do a great job," she wrote on the blog. "First of all, I've always wanted to shoot someone. I'd get a gun, right? Well, I'd definitely use it. Alot [sic]. Maybe everyday. Bang, bang! Take that!"

However, Pincus also jokes in the letter about having falafel with FBI agents, asking if they like theirs with hot sauce.

Her allies have defended her posts as satire, but some parts of the recent "letter" caused at least one councilperson to contact the Hoboken Police Department.

Pincus confirmed last weekend that Hoboken Police Department detectives visited her home to question her about the post. She said they told her she would be arrested if she blogged about it.

Pincus said their visit lasted an hour and that they interrogated her about the blog. She said that the visit scared her daughter.

Occhipinti said at the meeting on Wednesday that he had spoken to police about the issue.

However, Corporation Counsel Mark Tabakin told the council that he was informed as of Wednesday that there was "not any pending criminal investigation, [or] municipal violation," against Pincus.

Pincus asked that the issue be discussed in closed session, according to Tabakin.

When the closed session was finished, Mason said she hoped to make a statement before she voted. Tabakin repeated that the issue should remain in closed session. Mason's request was denied by Council President Ravi Bhalla.

Mason and her allies said their comments had been suppressed during the closed session.

"The public has a right to know why I'm voting the way I'm voting," Mason said.

Bhalla asked Tabakin if the city would be exposed to legal liability "by Councilwoman Mason opening her mouth."

Councilwoman Theresa Castellano said, "We just argued about First Amendment. Nancy Pincus has freedom of speech to say that she wants to shoot somebody, but we can't make a statement about her statement."

Bhalla said no one could speak on the matter right then, and added, "Got that?"

"You're like a dictator," Russo said to Bhalla. "You wouldn't let any of us speak in closed session."

Mason, who did not register a vote on the resolution due to the commotion, left her chair and approached the microphone where the public speaks to read a statement, arguing with Bhalla and the council, still requesting that she be allowed to speak. Bhalla denied her request once again, calling a vote for the adjournment of the meeting.

The measure to begin the process of removing Pincus failed by a 5-3 vote. The council currently consists of five of Zimmer's allies and four political opponents.

For much more on the council meeting, make sure to pick up a copy of The Hoboken Reporter this weekend. For previous posts regarding Pincus' blog, see links below.

- Ray Smith

Comments
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greenshirt
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September 12, 2011
Yes Bhalla should have let Mason make her statement so the city and not Mason would be risking legal liability.

So says Lane with a Cheshire cat smile. Oh how witty.

And how so very predictable. Paid by the word, the lie, the distortion but at least we know he isn't paid for his friendship?
greenshirt
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September 12, 2011
Funny how this Voltaire speaking little guy of a 1,000 screen names is advocating totalitarianism in the US bemoaning the standards or lack thereof in places lacking any respect for free speech.

So what does that tell you about this Voltaire quoting totalitarian? Not only does he attempt to tie in the lies of attack on others, he proves he respects neither Voltaire nor the Constitution and the speech of others.

Not exactly a selling point to get a job in media is it?
DancingRudy
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September 11, 2011
Cheshire_cat - if you, or Ms. Mason, or Mr. Occhipinti, or the members of the Hoboken Police Department do not find Ms.Pincus's satire funny you have the right to not read it. You even have the right to criticize it, publicly or privately. You can even call Ms.Pincus names. What you can't do is violate her legal rights. This means you can't launch a bogus police investigation and spout about it at a CC meeting. This means that if, after being rice noticed, she chooses to have the matter discussed in executive session, the City Council and each of its members is legally obligated to comply. Got that? Mrs. Mason apparently has. She decided not to release her "statement" to the press after receiving legal advice that doing so would be an illegal act that would expose her to personal liability. In the end, she chose prudence over further grandstanding - a wise choice on her part. As for shouting fire in a crowded theater - when a police officer called Mayor Zimmer a terrorist at a CC meeting, he came perilously close to crossing that line. Writing satire on a personal blog does not. There's a reason why constitutional lawyers come from the top echelons of the finest law schools, not from the bottom echelons of unemployed wannabees. Got that?
ThisMeansWar
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September 10, 2011
Maybe this is too complicated for you, but Bhalla's job is not to allow Mason to make an ass of herself when it will clearly worsen the case against the city. Let's talk about money for nothing when the cops come to your house and interrogate you and threaten to arrest you for nothing in front of your child. Idiot.
Cheshire_Cat
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September 10, 2011
Wait, I say, this is so curious. Was Pincus threatening to sue the administration that she supports so strongly? Makes no sense. Bhalla should have let Mason give her statement; then Pincus could sue Mason, no? Or was Pincus threatening to sue the administration(?) the police (?) in her closed session letter? Money for nothin' - go get it girl. Now, that would be an interesting twist were it true to be sure. But, it's all such stuff and nonsense anyway, not worth the reporters' time, not worth the time to write this comment. Not worth a dime. Pincus' satire site is not funny at all. Big snore. Let's all go shout fire in a crowded theater and be done with it? GOT THAT!!!!)
InfotainMe
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September 09, 2011
Well I have some good news for you then, PierC. The Russo days never ended. Not when cops will pull a stunt like this to intimidate a citizen on behalf of politicians on the thinnest possible pretext.

Here's the big change from the Russo days: these guys are in deep doo.
PierC
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September 09, 2011
Tommy- I couldn't agree with you more. The vicious reaction to any criticism of the current mayor hearkens back to the Russo days. The difference is that while Russo did his own bullying, the mayor has a host of supporters that do it for her. I always thought that "reformers" practiced a more enlightened form of politics. That is definitely not the case in Hoboken.
InfotainMe
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September 09, 2011
Tommy, Pincus wrote the most harmless satire in a website that has nothing but satire. To suddenly treat it as a life-threatening emergency is transparently political. People do not need to nor should they curtail their expression because jerks like Tim & Lane will try to make political hay out of it.

You said Pincus behaved like an angry brat. You have yet to explain or defend that remark. How Bajardi & Occhipinti take it is quite moot.
TommyLover
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September 09, 2011
Yes, Info, I did see the council meeting. Yes, Mason and Castellano acted like idiots. Frankly, thought Ravi was a bit of a bully too. Between Ravi and Beth I now realize what a nice job Carol did. However, the comment was not about the council. I responded to what I saw as an off-topic post that just cut-and-pasted some articles found on google from around the country on criminal doings by FBI agents. How does that relate to the Pincus issue? Because FBI agents came to her house to investigate a (possibly spurious) report? We love the FBI when they take out our political enemies (the IT guy at City Hall, and of course, Cammarano) but I saw it as a transparent attempt to malign them for doing what they are supposed to do - following up on a complaint from someone. Of course Occhipinti's filing was political but Pincus provided them with that opportunity to grandstand. I think what she did is impetuous, irresponsible and immature. I don't know her - I'm going on her actions. Nancy Pincus should be grateful she isn't Egyptian. Or Pakistani. Or Syrian. Or Palestinian. Or Afghan. Or Iranian. Or married to someone from one of those countries. That's my point. And not sure what the comment 'how many names this week' is about - I hardly ever comment here. But nice attempt to malign me. I voted for Dawn and I support her but I am beginning to see how the tenor of some of her supporters isn't really all that much different from the bullying days of Russo.
saannleo
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September 09, 2011
One of the many reasons why no one in Hudson County or NJ takes Hoboken Politics/Politicians seriously.

What a joke.
InfotainMe
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September 08, 2011
Tommy, perhaps it would round out your perspective it you watched the meeting you are commenting on. Pincus was not present, issued a statement to be read in closed session, which is her legal option. Given follow-on commentary by ccp and corp counsel, there are now legal implications for the city related to its conduct in the matter.

There were angry brats present. Ms Mason, shrieking like a teenage Hamptons princess when her credit card was declined, and Ms Castellano, who managed to add to the city's woes by making a comment for the microphones.

The inability of these 2 to shut up once the possibility of a lawsuit was presented tells you all you need to know about them.

Your inability to admit it and to instead project THEIR behavior onto Ms Pincus tells us all we need to know about you.

PS. How many names this week?
p1ywood
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September 08, 2011
Legally the town would be exposed to more liability if the council commented before the vote. But the inconsiderate Mason, Russo and Castellano didn't care. They are so overwhelmed by immaturity they don't care how many of our tax dollars are spent in a lawsuit. How irresponsible with our money. Recall time!
TommyLover
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September 08, 2011
@msfreeh

Huh? I don't get it. What's your point - that FBI agents commit crimes? Yeah, so? Cops, priests, Senators, Congressmembers, judges, heads of states do too. What does that have to do with Pincus behaving like an angry brat? I'll bet her kid was scared - of her clearly very angry mother. For Russo, Occipinti, Mason and Castellano - Pincus is a dream come true. Her rage trumps her reason - and frankly that is a little scary.
Smartyjones
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September 08, 2011
According to a source close to Pincus, the police did not say she could not blog about it. They said she would be arrested if she did write about their visit.

Few more details (all in the video). Mason didn't say she hoped to make a statement, she said she had a statement. Told doing so on the matter of a closes session was illegal she insisted she was in fact going to make her statement. The Council President stopped her after conferring with the city attorney concluding her statements would "further" the city's legal liability on the mater.

Last, Mason's comments complaining from the public microphone off the dais came after the council meeting had been adjourned.

It's all in the short video clip:

http://www.hobokenhorse.com/2011/09/occhipinti-outed-as-source-of-police.html
ss1959
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September 08, 2011
When it comes to closes sessions, you are not permitted to discuss the substance until the matter is closed. Beth Mason obviously doesn't understand this fact. By going after Nancy's 1st Amendment rights and then trying to give a political speech the minority continues to show their legal incompetence.
Smartyjones
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September 08, 2011
A lot of the details here, but perhaps a little missed. First, Beth Mason was screaming during the actual vote. She then later went to the public microphone and was complaining after the meeting had been ended.

Her and others actions before, during and after the voting could be legally problematic. You aren't suppose to be discussing matters in a closed session in the Council meeting when it resumes.

Beth Mason and Terry Castellano did. This is a serious matter putting Hoboken at legal risk. They didn't care as they were upset the "ongoing criminal investigation" was dead.

More on this with the complete video at MSV:

http://milesquareview.com